Opinions on Trades Fall '04

[Deleted]

I think Philly clearly wins this trade value-wise. However this deal makes absolutely no sense from my point of view. From what i've seen St. Louis has been the heart and soul of the Flyers this season and he goes from a contender now to just an average playoff team. Yes i'd much much rather have Doan and Horton over St. Louis (not even considering Camalleri) but he is seriously jepardizing his chances in the playoffs by downgrading his best foward from an 85 to a 79

Still though this is a clean win for Philly but I give Buffalo some leeway since he is a Bolts fan and I think some of us have overpaid for our favorite players. Hope Buffalo doesn't get too disappointed when the NHL resumes and he's the 3rd best offensive player on the team.

[buffalogm]

Not as disappointed as you'll be around this time on February 6th.

[ducks]

OHHHHHHH WHATS UP!!!!

[Preds]

Whats going on on feb 6th?

[Jackets Oilers]

Preds said:

Whats going on on feb 6th?

When the New England Patriots have their big locker-room party

[Preds]

ahhh yes... coulda guessed that lol.

[thrashers]

BluesGM said:

Hope Buffalo doesn't get too disappointed when the NHL resumes and he's the 3rd best offensive player on the team.

Vinny and Richards?

[thrashers]

This trade once again proves how much people in the league overrate prospects. Cammalleri and Horton haven't done a thing in the pros yet. Yes, their future looks bright, but they still haven't proven a thing. IF Horton and Cammalleri live up to their potential, then Flyers wins, but no one knows. St.Louis has already proven himself, and will probably be rated really high while Horton and Cammalleri are still introducing themselves to the league. (ugh, I can't believe I just complimented St. Louis )

[Preds]

I cant believe you dont think prospects arent valuable... Thats why they get traded for big name players all the time in the nhl... You can usually project the development of a good player. Obviously not always cause there are busts but still they have alot more value than you give them credit. Especially Horton and Cammaleri... Look at Spezza, is he not good in the NHL? Well Cammaleri is right behind him in AHL scoring, LA is young too. Cammalari will be in the NHL full time next season. Horton did damn good his first year as an 18 year old! They are two very highly touted prospects.

[buffalogm]

I agree with Preds.

I also laugh in the general direction of ATL for having to complement Marty! hah! ;D

[thrashers]

Preds said:

I cant believe you dont think prospects arent valuable... Thats why they get traded for big name players all the time in the nhl... You can usually project the development of a good player. Obviously not always cause there are busts but still they have alot more value than you give them credit. Especially Horton and Cammaleri... Look at Spezza, is he not good in the NHL? Well Cammaleri is right behind him in AHL scoring, LA is young too. Cammalari will be in the NHL full time next season. Horton did damn good his first year as an 18 year old! They are two very highly touted prospects.

I didn't say prospects aren't valuable. I love following a prospect's development. Look at my team, I have a bunch of young prospects and usually my trades are for younger players. My point is everyone just assumes that because a player gets drafted high he'll be good. Who knows what will happen with a player? Could get hurt, could have motivation problems, etc. It's anything but a sure thing when you watch an 18, 19, 20 yr old play. And I do disagree with your AHL argument. There are plenty of players who tear up the AHL, but can never make it to the NHL. I realize Horton and Cammalleri have great potential. You can ask Buffalo, I asked about them plenty of times. Everyone here just assumes they WILL make it big time (1st/2nd line players). I was just sayin it's way premature for ppl to be saying Flyers killed in this deal.

[Deleted]

Thrashers said:

This trade once again proves how much people in the league overrate prospects. Cammalleri and Horton haven't done a thing in the pros yet. Yes, their future looks bright, but they still haven't proven a thing. IF Horton and Cammalleri live up to their potential, then Flyers wins, but no one knows. St.Louis has already proven himself, and will probably be rated really high while Horton and Cammalleri are still introducing themselves to the league. (ugh, I can't believe I just complimented St. Louis )

I didn't really comment much on Camalleri even though I think he has some good potential. A player who does well in the AHL at a young age should be at least a 3rd liner in the NHL. Anyway I completely disagree with your assessment of a "prospect" who needs to prove himself and saying that about Nathan Horton. Horton has amazing size, strength, speed, and offensive ability. He has proven himself in the NHL it's not like he has rotted in the CHL the last year he was playing with the big boys. The problem with him is if he can stay healthy. I'd say his potential is definitely worth the risk though i'd love to get a guy like Horton on my team.....oh that's right I have Ben Eager (same type of player but minus the offense).

[thrashers]

BluesGM said:

Anyway I completely disagree with your assessment of a "prospect" who needs to prove himself and saying that about Nathan Horton. Horton has amazing size, strength, speed, and offensive ability. He has proven himself in the NHL it's not like he has rotted in the CHL the last year he was playing with the big boys. The problem with him is if he can stay healthy.

Why has he proven himself? I guess you and I have different definitions. A player that scores 22 pts in 50+ games hasn't proven himself to me. Yes, he has shown he can play in the NHL, but like you mentioned, he has a history of injuries and how does 22 pts prove that he will definitely be a 1st line center in the future? Look, don't get me wrong. I like Horton. I think he'll be pretty damn good. Like I've already mentioned, I'm not arguing about Horton and Cammalleri's potential. My point is everyone acts like just because a player plays in the NHL as an 18 yr old means he's gonna become a superstar. That's not always the case.

[Deleted]

I've seen Horton play a few times and i've seen him do some pretty nasty things with the puck. I think he's much more of a sure thing than Staal or Fleury who were picked above him.

[FlyersGM]

Well, here was my thinking, and I'll try to touch on everyone's comments.

Why I dealt St. Louis: He's a GREAT player, in the NHL and in our league. He's an offensive force and one of the best defensive forwards, so he can — and should — play in every situation. However, you have to wonder if his amazing season last year isn't setting him up for a setback. It's awful tough to play at that level for a long time with your main attributes being heart and determination. So I can't help but think he will take a step back, perhaps to an 82-83 player. That being said, the dropoff from him to Doan isn't that much, if you consider my theory.

The prospects: I hated losing Lombardi. I really liked what he had done and his potential, but I couldn't help but REALLY want Horton. IMO, Thrash's comments about prospects are a little confusing. First off, to mention injuries is a little premature. St. Louis could break his neck the first game of next season, or Doan could tear up his knee. Those are the chances you take. Also, does Horton need to be a first-line center (which I think he will be, but regardless) for me to win this deal? If he even becomes a 20-goal, 70-point guy who can be physical, that's pretty nice to me. I didn't base my acquisition of him on his draft slot, I based it on watching him play. I think he's going to be a beast and, as a Canes fan, wonder if maybe Carolina should've taken him instead of Staal

Cammalleri's value is at an all-time high. I didn't think getting him was a huge coup, but when Buffalo offered him, he seemed like a good throw-in to take a chance on. Since I work for company that produces a Univ. of Michigan publication, I have pretty good insight into Wolverines prospects, i think. I do not think Cammalleri is a first-line guy, and I think his AHL performance adds a little more hype to him than he probabvly deserves. That being said, if Horton and he become second- and third-line guys, respectively, that means I probably dealt St. Louis for a VERY solid first-line winger and a second-line center (calling Lombardi-Cammalleri a wash). Not to mention I moved from the very bottom of the first round (Wally's pick) to a middle-of-the-round pick.

As for my chances this year ... I can understand St. Louis' comments questioning the timing of the deal. The one thing that really stood out to me in this deal was the fact that Horton can score now. His 71 SC rating is the fourth-best on my team now (Marleau 75, Doan 74, Sturm 73). I've been needing another scorer, since Handzus hasn't scored like I've wanted him to. This gives me that (he has 14 goals this year).

So we'll see how it goes ... I like to think i got the better end of the deal both now and in the future, but St. Louis is a huge asset and I think he could propel Buffalo into the playoffs. Guess we'll see.